After Death - Soul Sleep vs. Soul Awake

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After Death: Body & Soul Sleeps

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After Death: Body Sleeps but Soul Awake

When a person dies, their Soul and Body does nothing and remains in that state until later.  Their Spirit goes back to Heaven.

Opening doctrine position?

When a person dies, their body does nothing, it sleeps.  The soul instantly departs to either Sheol or Heaven.  Their spirit goes back to Heaven.  It could be said today (after Christ’s resurrection), that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is either in Heaven/Paradise or Hades.

 

Satan deceived them and they believe a mystical doctrine which scripture forbids.  They have been taught incorrectly and if they read the scripture and the warnings they would know how to interpret scripture. Believing in life after death is spiritualism and demonic.  It is a false hope and many religions believe in the afterlife and this is one that has crept in from the others.  They are adopting doctrine of demons!

 

Thoughts on the opposing doctrinal position?

They have been deceived by Satan not knowing the power of God nor the scriptures.  Similar to the Sadducees (Acts 23:8).  Their going in position is biased and are not letting the scripture reveal the truth. Believing in life after death is the good news that Satan doesn’t want people to know!! Jesus is still saying, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he LIVE” Satan is saying they will die.  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:25-26).  Honestly they don’t believe Jesus’ words but rather choose Satan’s or their denomination (cultist).  That’s why they adopt the doctrine of demons. Jesus said, “But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living?” (Matt. 22:31-32).

No difference for a person who dies under the OT and NT.  Death and Soul sleep – like unconscious, they remain in this state until later.

Is there a difference between those who died in the OT & NT?

Yes in OT, all went into Sheol.  In the NT, the saints go to Heaven and those who are not in Christ continue to go to Sheol. 

 

 

“Man” is always Body & Soul

 

Who is the “man” referred to in scripture?

Depending on the context, “Man” or the Person is either in reference to their Body or Soul or Body and Soul. 

Seeing spirits is spiritualism and forbidden by scripture.

Is seeing Spirits wrong?

It is wrong to conjure them up or go to a place that conjures them up. How did Jesus, John & Paul see spiritual beings?  Seeing spirits doesn’t then mean we are to bow to them, but if God shows them we don’t hide our face nor should we be afraid of them.

Signs of delusion and negate all signs and power of Holy Spirit as it is done away.  To be safe heed God’s warning in Deut. And stay away.

What do you think of the power and the signs of the Holy Spirit?

Holy Spirit’s ministry in us is a vital part of the only part of the Ministry that is of God. Paul said, “Kingdom of God is not in Word but Power” (1 Cor. 4:20).  Also later tells the church, those who pursue love, to “Desire spiritual gifts” (1 Cor. 14:1).  Those who believe the signs are done away with or believe those who work with the signs is from Satan – they are Blaspheming Holy Spirit and are in danger. The Pharisees did the very same thing to Jesus (Mark 3:20-30).

 

Just be conscious, everything Jesus has provided there is an counterfeit.  Christ – Anti Christ.  Prophecy – False Prophecy.  Miracles by God – false signs.  The point is how do we discern? It is with and by Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit brings life, healing, freedom from sin and brings us into bondage to His Word – so we become a slave of righteousness.

The person – they are awakened from their unconscious state, their sleep.  Meaning their soul & body are raised up together.  Christ taught that there are two general resurrections: a "'resurrection of life'" for the just and a "'resurrection of condemnation'" for the unjust (John 5:28, 29; Acts 24:15).

What are your thoughts on the Resurrection, what that means?

The word resurrection is actually the term to revive a physical BODY, awaken (Rev. 21:1; 20:11-15).  And this happens at different times – one when Christ comes to earth and the other after the 1000year reign for the wicked.  The 1000 years separates these resurrections (Rev. 20:4, 5).

Then physical death will be conquered (1 Cor. 15:26, 53-54).

 

 

Body & Soul are physical and the Spirit is spiritual.  Soul & body is in a state of temporary unconsciousness while the person awaits the resurrection.

Body and soul only exist together; they form an indivisible union that can’t be separated. Though the body returns to dust, the spirit returns to God for both the unrighteous and righteous (Eccl. 12:7).  The spirit is the life of the body (James 2:26)

Briefly provide the difference between – Body, Soul & Spirit? 1 Thess. 5:23 “I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Body is physical (earth suit) made up of the invisible (Heb. 11:3). Soul and the spiritual are also invisible but known as spiritual.

 

Body sleeps (ceases/rest of work/sleeps) until resurrection but the soul goes to a place (either Heaven, Hades or Death). The spirit returns to God instantly for both unrighteous and righteous (Eccl. 12:7). The spirit is the life of the body (James 2:26).

 

Dead means either physical death and or separation from God depends on the context e.g. Dead bury the dead (Matt. 8:22).

 

EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING SOUL VERSES?

 

Did not receive a soul as a separate entity; he became a living soul

 

 

Gen. 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The byproduct of the spirit and the body is a living soul.  It is a living soul not a dead soul or a soul dependent on the body or spirit.  Just like a man and woman when they come together the byproduct is a child.  If the man and the woman dies does that mean their child ceases to exit.  The soul is a separate entity (Rev. 6:9-10)

The elements that made up the body return to the earth from which they came. The Spirit returns to God.  The soul must go to the place the dead body is and remains there because they are one.

 

Dust we are therefore we return to dust.

Gen. 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Dust he was created from (body) and dust he returned (body). We established the soul wasn’t created from the body but it was byproduct of body and spirit. This passage doesn’t talk about the spirit nor the living soul. 

 

The soul has no conscious existence apart from the body, no scripture indicates that at death the soul survives as a conscious entity. Here it says the soul dies.

It has been reversed to say "the soul, even though it sins, shall live eternally."

 

Ezek. 18:19-20 “…hath done them, he shall surely live.  The soul who sins shall die'"

Verse prior “Soul will live!”  And Soul who sins will die. Die also means separation from God (Matt. 8:22).  A soul that is with God will live but a soul without God is dead, separated from God, lost soul. Just like Jesus says though he dies he will live (John 11:25).  Their soul lives and their physical body dies.

Grave is another name for Sheol. Soul & Body are in the grave asleep. 

Ps. 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, for He shall receive me.

He DID redeem many souls of the saints many years later (Matt. 27:52) and will do it again.  He didn’t leave them there.  The soul was in Sheol not the body.  Sheol and Hole in the ground/“Grave” as we know it are not the same. The translators may have translated it the same but not the same in the Hebrew Text.

Grave and Hades/Sheol is the same thing – it is a place in the sand or rock like a tomb. 

Acts 2:31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.

Clearly distinguishing the body and soul as 2 different entities. 1) Soul wasn’t left in Sheol/Hades by implication like the others (David) but was taken out.  Also 2) his flesh didn’t see corruption.

It is symbolic

2 Cor. 5:1-5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Our earthly vessel is our body, we have a building of God not made with hands when is our Soul. Our soul wants to be clothed with our house from heaven.  It is symbolic that has a meaning. But they will see and not see.

Their emotion/identity dies but they didn’t kill it, all they killed is their body and their soul died as a result.  Matt. 10:28 “fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. There is a clear distinction by Jesus that the body is different from the soul.  And that when a body dies it doesn’t kill the soul.  If it did then if Satan or a person killed another person then their body and soul would die – cease.  However Jesus clearly said that those who kill the body CANNOT kill the soul.  However God can.  And how can God? In Hell – Lake of Fire – Gehenna.

 

WHAT DOES SLEEP MEAN WHEN A PERSON DIES IN THE FOLLOWING VERSES?

 

Souls sleeping with forefathers in a subconscious state.

David, Solomon, and the other kings of Israel and Judah as sleeping with their forefathers (1 Kings 2:10; 11:43; 14:20, 31; 15:8; 2 Chron. 21:1; 26:23; etc.). 

Physical death is also referred to as sleeping (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6).  Their bodies are buried/sleeping with their forefathers.

Man (soul & body) lies down (dies), does not rise, even until heavens are no more.

Job 14:10-13- 10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

 

Job was a mighty, humble man of God. Also understand that not everything Job says is 100% true!  He is a mighty man of wisdom and is righteous but he is not all knowing and also is not speaking on behalf of God E.g. Job 31:35-36 “Oh that one would hear me! Behold, my desire is, that the Almighty would answer me, and that mine adversary had written a book. Surely I would take it upon my shoulder, and bind it as a crown to me.”  Job call’s God’s his adversary and would have kept his word if he knew it. 

 

However having said this – let’s talk about what Job is seeing.  Job is speaking from what he physically sees and not speaking on behalf of God – a Man (body) dies and doesn’t rise.  Like sleep they lay down but they do not rise.  Don’t read into more than he said. If we put ourselves in the writers shoes and with their frame of reference we would understand the scriptures better.

His soul & body will sleep, if God doesn’t help him.

Ps. 13:3 David said, Consider, hear me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, lest I sleep the death.

 

If God doesn’t help him, His Body will sleep, be killed. 

Soul & Body is sleeping – dead.  Jesus clearly said Lazarus is dead. 

 

If Lazarus went somewhere it would have been a big thing and he would have told people about the afterlife but he said nothing.

Matt. 9:24; Mark 5:39 Jairus' daughter, who was dead.  Christ said that she was sleeping similar to Lazarus John 11:11-14.

Daughter’s body was dead. Jesus confirmed that it was asleep.  Jesus clearly said, Lazarus is dead.  They understood the context that His body which was sleeping is actually dead. 

 

Re: Lazarus would have said something. The Gospels are about Jesus’ life not Lazarus’.  Neither do they talk about the sickness he died from or what he said after death.  Lazarus could have chosen to be quiet or he might have said somethings but it wasn’t recorded.  The absence of saying something doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.  

Their body and soul will sleep perpetually – die.  Sleep ongoing.

Jer. 51: 39 In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the Lord… 57 And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the Lord of hosts.

Their body will die, a perpetual sleep vs. sleep.  Meaning their body will die and not get up.  When the body sleeps the soul doesn’t sleep – it remains active (dreams).  It isn’t for eternity our body sleeps as we know it will be resurrected one day (1 Cor. 15:51-53). 

Many (their soul and body) will remain in the earth until resurrection where they will be awakened (their body and soul).

Daniel said - Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Many (their body) lie in the dust of the earth, shall be awaken meaning resurrected (get up) – body raised up (resurrected - John 5:29).  Just like those in Matt. 27:52.

Saints (souls and bodies) were sleeping and raised after Christ was raised (soul & body).  Christ was sleeping soul & body for 3 days until his resurrection.

Matt. 27:52-53 “and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.”

Notice the Bodies OF the saints, were raised.  Not the souls were raised. It was their bodies that were asleep and now raised and came out of the tombs. For them in the graves to hear is for them to be awake to hear, then they came forth.

 

His Soul & Body fell asleep. Spirit (life of the body goes to heaven).

Acts 7:59-60. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Body died (fell asleep). Spirit (life of the body goes to heaven).  When he had said this – he died – body died.  This is the meaning of the sentence. 

Not everyone’s body & soul will die/sleep, some will remain alive.

Paul said 1 Cor. 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

Not everyone’s body will die/sleep, some bodies will remain alive and be changed into immortal bodies – in a twinkling of an eye.

Them (soul & body) are asleep and will be raised to life when he comes.

1 Thess. 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

v15  For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

v16  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

v17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

God will bring those who died/sleep in Jesus (the believers).  Where were they – with Him, bring with Him.  Bring with Him from where? From Heaven where he is coming from v16. 

 

Their bodies are in the dirt.  He isn’t bringing the bodies but He will be bringing them – their souls.

 

Those whose bodies are alive will not be ahead of those who died in Christ (dead bodies).  They will be one of the first to get their immortal bodies.  v14 their souls will be coming with Him.  He is coming from heaven v16 and BRINGING them with Him.

 

Those believers who are alive will be caught up together with them, and joined with the others by receiving their immortal bodies.  They will meet in the clouds.

Father’s souls and body are dead, fell asleep and not existing in any conscious state.

2 Peter 3: 4 And saying, where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.

Many leaders in Christ, have died.  How do the people know? The people’s bodies are dead – fell asleep.  They were expecting Christ to have come but many of those were dead and thus disappointed. Peter was addressing this. 

Satan is still saying people will not die and many “Christians” also saying this.

God said you will die if you eat.  Satan said "'You will not surely die'" (Gen. 3:4)

There is one thing that is guaranteed people will die physically, not all per 1 Thess. 4.  But this isn’t the end.

 

WHAT IS SHEOL/ HADES?

 

The Old Testament calls the place where people go at death sheol (Hebrew), and the New Testament hades (Greek). In the Scripture, sheol most often simply means the grave. The meaning of hades is similar to that of sheol.

Prior to Christ all the dead go into this place (Ps. 89:48). Jacob said, "'I shall go down into the grave [sheol]'" (Gen. 37:35). When the earth opened "its mouth" to swallow the wicked Korah and his company, they went "'down alive into the pit [sheol]'" (Num. 16:30).  When Christ died, He went into the grave (hades) but at the Resurrection His soul left the grave (hades, Acts 2:27, 31, or sheol, Ps. 16:10).

Sheol is more than just a hole or pit or physical grave, it is an actual place with attributes - read Luke 16:19-31

 

We need to remember not to change words around to support our case.  When the Greek says Hades it is Hades and when it says grave it is grave. 

The grave is not a place of consciousness. Since death is a sleep, the dead will remain in a state of unconsciousness in the grave until the resurrection, when the grave (hades) gives up its dead.

Rev. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hades delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

It is not a grave.  On Judgment day – Death & Hades which are different places…  just like the sea, will give up the dead (those who are separated from God) to be judged at the white throne of God. And Death and Hades = those places - will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14).

 

EXPLAIN THESE “WHAT HAPPENS JUST AFTER DEATH” VERSES?

 

No one has ascended to heaven period!

John 3:13 “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

What about Elijah or Enoch?  Post the resurrection there is Paul (or someone he knew 2 Cor. 12:1-4) and John (Revelation) who ascended to heaven.  This wasn’t a dream or vision – they ascended.  However this statement from Jesus needs to be understood. No one has both been in heaven AND on earth at the same time except the Son of Man. 

 

2 Sam. 12:22 And he said, “While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether the Lord 

will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”

King David affirms that his son will not come back to life but that David will die one day and go to him. If it was an unconscious state/sleep after why even make this statement – He still wouldn’t interact.  David it making this statement because now he is unable to interact with the child but one day he will when he “goes”/ dies.  

Sleep brings an end to all the days activities. Sleep disassociates us from those who are awake, and from their activities. Normal sleep renders the emotions inactive.  They cease to work, have thought so best to work now when you have life. 

Ecc 9:5-10 “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.

9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.

10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

This seems a direct contrast to Luke 16:19-31 & Revelation 6:9-11 where they do remember, they have understanding after death.  So what is this regarding?  This is in contrast to the living on earth from which Solomon is speaking. The memory of THEM is forgotten, in other words they will be forgotten by those on the earth. Same with their love, hatred and envy will be forgotten, perish.  They don’t have a portion of anything where? On Earth.  What they do on earth can’t be taken to the beyond (in the grave) – no work (their time is up Heb. 9:27), no device (no physical thing), no knowledge and no wisdom (they don’t need to figure anything out – they will know and be judged Heb 9:27).  

In sleep conscious thinking ceases.

Ps. 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

This Hebrew word that is translated “Thought” reoccurs only once in the scripture and isn’t referring to “thinking or thoughts” BUT referring to “plans/ideas”.  Of course when he dies his plans cease this is no longer an impact on earth.   

In sleep men do not praise God. 

Ps. 115:17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Ps. 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of You;
In the grave who will give You thanks?

Prior to the resurrection of Christ all the dead were separated from God, how could they praise him - They couldn’t.  This was written prior to the resurrection of Christ.

Sleep presupposes an awakening.

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It is their body that is resurrection to life and their soul will re-enter the tent – earthly house (2 Cor. 5:1-5).  The term resurrection means “Rising up of the body” for the soul to dwell in – the house.  You won’t find resurrection apart from the body. 

After death they are unconscious and then will be awakened later when they will be judged.  So “after this” doesn’t mean instantly but a future time.

 Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

After they die they are judged – there is no indication of a waiting period but a judgement after death. 

Soul departing from the earth, meaning she is going to die. 

Genesis 35:18 And so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

Her soul was departing - Soul was departing from what? As the scripture says “for she died” – what died? Her body died and for this reason the soul departs. 

He will live in a future time but now he still lives but in an unconscious state.

 

John 11:25-16 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Now in Christ we are no longer separated – not even death separates us.  We that believe in him shall never die!  How can this be when death physically still happens? Our soul doesn’t die.

They are living but in an unconscious state, just like those in a coma are living but not engaging. 

Matt. 22:31-32 Jesus said.. “But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living?”

Jesus is still saying this today to the same people – though these people are dead yet they are living contrast from sleeping.  Because their bodies are asleep(dead) but their soul is alive.  Jesus said, “I am the God of Abraham, The God of Isaac and the God of Jacob” God is not the God of the unconscious but of the living. 

This is in reference to spirit’s not souls, most likely in reference to Fallen Angels.

1 Peter 3:18-20 “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.” 

Christ’s body was sleeping but his soul was IN the HEART of the earth Matt. 12:40. He wasn’t on the surface of the earth or waiting in the tomb.  He preached to the “spirits” in prison.  If you don’t believe this then answer 4 questions 1) When did He preach to them? 2) What form was Christ in when He preached to them? 3) Where is this prison? 4) Who were these spirit and what form did they have?

 

 

Rev. 6:9-10 - 9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?

The souls under the altar.  Where are the souls? They are in heaven (under the altar).  Are they sleeping?  No “they cried with a loud voice” saying, “How long….” They are interacting with God.

Meaning he is about to die “put off his tabernacle” like Jesus showed him how.

2 Peter 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Peter is going to die and he is putting off his tabernacle – his body.  That means he is separate from his body.

Not conclusive, could be an angel speaking with him as in the beginning

Rev. 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit ofprophecy.

John was in Heaven, wanted to worship the person showing him things.  This is one who had obviously died and was in heaven showing him these things.  Why? He told John plainly, “I am your fellowservant and of your brothers” Notice it is not an Angel. 

This is a future time.

 

 

Rev 7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; This is future time, more than 144000, and before the marriage supper, please note they are in Heaven.

This is a future time after the unconscious state.

Phil. 1:21-24 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.  But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Paul made a choice to either live in his body (stay on earth) or to die.  He says “departs” departs from what? From them and his body/flesh.  He desires this to be with Christ which is far better.

No indication that it is instant with the Lord.  To them it may seem instant but there is a sleep period.

2 Cor. 5: 6-8 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:  (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Taking confidence, knowing, that while at HOME in this body. Meaning focusing on our body and things done to us by others, we are absent from the Lord (we can’t serve to masters).

The Greek has no punctuations therefore if we change the punctuation then it would read.  "Truly I say to you today, you shall be with Me in Paradise." Meaning that I am affirming to you today that you will be with Me in paradise.  Sometime in the future you will be with me. 

Luke 23:42-43 Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise,"

Jesus was emphasizing that today was the time He and the thief would be together in paradise. Scripture includes no other instance of Jesus ever saying, "I say to you today." 

 Jesus uses this phrase “I say to you” about 66 times in other passages saying “Truly I say to you” and never adds a time reference to it – meaning “Listen up closely” – listen up closely to what?  “This very day you will be with me in paradise”  

 

Matt.17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

 

Dead Moses and Taken up to Heaven Elijah met with Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration, they were represented having form that the disciples recognized and they spoke with Christ.  They weren’t sleeping – except for the conditions this was somewhat similar to Samuel appearing to Saul.  

 

WHAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION ON THESE EXTENSIVE PASSAGES ABOUT SOUL IN A SEPARATE PLACE AFTER DEATH?

 

Saul was deceived by a demon impersonating the dead Samuel; he never saw the real Samuel. The witch saw the form of an old man while Saul only "perceived" or concluded that it was Samuel (verse 14).  "When Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets" (1 Sam. 28:6). God, then, had nothing to do with what happened at Endor.

 

Yet the so-called Samuel had predicted that on that day Saul and his sons would be with him (1 Sam. 28:19). If he were correct, we would have to conclude that after death the disobedient Saul and the righteous Samuel dwelt together.

 

 

1 Sam 28:6-20 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets. Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium…… Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me." When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!" And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What did you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth." So he said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle." And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down. Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do." Then Samuel said: "So why do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy? And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines." Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, and was dreadfully afraid because of the words of Samuel. And there was no strength in him, for he had eaten no food all day or all night.

When it comes to extensive passages that show the soul departing like 1 Sam 28 and Luke 16 those that believe in Soul sleep will always try to explain it away.  Some have said Samuel seen here is a demon imposter in order to explain Samuel away. The scripture always tells us if there is deception which they ignore.  Also scripture tells us if it was false (e.g. the lying spirit that influenced the people, Satan impacting Job or Satan pushing David to number the people). It is true that the LORD did not answer Saul by any physical avenue (Urim, prophets, Saul directly in dreams), nor did God send Samuel.  But Samuel was disturbed, the witch brought him UP, he came from the earth.  Then it was SAMUEL (soul) who answered him.

 

No demon or Angel would know of the future, this is only in the hands of God and His people whom he has revealed.  If the demons/Satan had known they wouldn’t have crucified the Christ (1 Cor. 2:8).  Everything Samuel said came to pass exactly as Samuel said. 

 

It is not hard to believe that Samuel and Saul were in the same place for no one is righteous.  Yes due to Saul’s rebellion God punished Saul while Saul was alive.  Also Saul did seek forgiveness many times and did love Israel.  He died defending them and didn’t abandon them.  Also Saul’s son Jonathan did many good things for David. Sheol is a place in the earth, where those who died in the OT went and thus Samuel came out of the earth – for no one was righteous, not one (Rom 3:10).

 

 

This is clearly a parable because he spoke to the Pharisees and he spoke all parables to the Pharisees.  Jesus is using to explain his message that starts in Luke 15, it doesn’t mean it actually happened.

Luke 16:19-31: 19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in Hell (Hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

As can be clearly seen, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping.

 

Now let’s play the other side – if it was a parable Jesus always used real situations to talk it – there isn’t a parable that couldn’t literally happen as all the element were true not fictitious.

 

Every time a parable is used Jesus said, “the kingdom of God is like” or scripture highlights it is a parable.  This exact phrase was used moments earlier by Jesus talking to His disciples.

 

This message from Jesus teaches that the soul is not sleeping but alive and conscious after death and before bodily resurrection. Incidentally, this is the only time the phrase "Abraham's bosom" appears in the Bible. "Abraham's bosom" was an expression referring to the "paradise" Jesus anticipated following His death.

 

Some wonder if we will recognize our loved ones in heaven or if our spirits will be without form like a ghost or a wispy cloud, but these passages suggest we will have a bodily form. The Bible doesn't give us details, but several passages suggest we will have recognizable intermediate bodies.

 

Notice “though one rose from the dead” – The rich man still had compassion for his family and wanted someone to come back from the “Dead”.  Yet he was alive and they didn’t know.